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Surface Level
Surface Level

Surface Level

A weekly show hosted by longtime friends Jordan, Damon, and Tony, explores the complexities of the Black and Queer experience. Through personal stories, dynamic guests, and curious conversations, this series offers a nuanced understanding of identity, race, and sexuality that goes beyond the surface level, with a touch of humor and a fearless willingness to challenge the norm.

Available Episodes 10

Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – are you ready to go beyond the surface level with us?

Once again we sign off after this very special season grounded in earth, freed through wind, and emboldened by fire. We hope we’ve succeeded in our mission to make you more curious about topics that are not typically broached. Special thanks to all of our amazing guest in sharing their stories and experiences in making the journey of Surface Level that much more special. So here’s our love letter to you our Surface Level Insiders, your questions shape the end of each season and we are happy to share our experiences on things you’re curious about. So farewell for now as we take some time to keep living, growing, and preparing more stories for the future.

We know a lot, but we don’t know it all, so join the conversation on social and let us know your thoughts.


Damon, Jordan & Tony are curious – how can healthy disagreement lead to personal growth?

Closing the fire series, our penultimate episode for season seven explores what happens when tempers boil over. We recognize that even in our closest relationships there is bound to be conflict, but how we approach these situations make the difference in our lives. Will we accept uneasy conversations as an opportunity to grow or let ego take over? Will we assert ourselves to those around us while still showing them respect or get down in the gutter? Depending on the day the answer is different but we hope to learn a bit more each day even if some lessons don’t always come with a smile.

We know a lot but we don’t know it all, so join the conversation on social and let us know your thoughts.

Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – how does aligning with traditional beauty standards benefit and harm our community? Pretty privilege, the hot-button topic that has been at the forefront of many kitchen tables has made its way to Surface Level. This week we welcome Obio Jones, Digital Creator and LGBTQIA+ Advocate to our Surface Level family. We ask ourselves, can we work against a system that we benefit from? The age of social media has thrust physical appearance into the forefront of anyone looking to garner attention for their work. Is it fair? No. Is it reality? Absolutely. When operating from a place of privilege, we believe it is the work of those individuals to recognize it, speak out about it, and use the attention, not just for their own advancement, but to create a better community for all of us. We know a lot but we don’t know it all, so join the conversation on social and let us know your thoughts.

Jordan & Tony are curious – how can we broaden what it means to be Black and excellent?

In this unprecedented bonus episode, we revisit our season opener, 'Black Excellence Is A Scam,' from a fresh perspective. While Damon is absent this week (rest assured, he'll be back in full effect next week!), we are excited to welcome Eboni K. Williams, an Author, Attorney, and Host, to our Surface Level family. Eboni, the first Black Housewife on Bravo's Real Housewives of New York City (RHONY), is a disruptor in the media landscape who continues to offer a unique take on Black Excellence. Join us as we delve into the intricate relationship between Whiteness, classism, and mental health, and their influence on our perception of Black Excellence. We also touch on the polarizing 'bus driver gate' and the role of power in our romantic lives. Additionally, we address criticisms surrounding Eboni's time on RHONY. Prepare for a spirited and engaging discussion about a topic that our community can't seem to stop talking about.

We know a lot but we don’t know it all, so join the conversation on social and let us know your thoughts.

Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – how does the work of Queer nightlife curators impact our ability to find community?

In closing out Wind series, we are excited to pay tribute to a space that has long represented freedom for Queer individuals: nightlife. This supersized episode of Surface Level is dedicated to the legacy of Black Queer nightlife giant, Frank Watson, who we lost earlier this year. We welcome 3 impressive curators in their own right to our Surface Level family, Joe Morris founder of Joe Morris Events and co-owner of Brunch Harlem, Micah Marquez co-founder of Deviant Events, and Chuck co-owner of Lambda Lounge Harlem and Club Lambda Brooklyn. From discriminations they have faced, to the complexities of managing large crowds, to the desire they have in curating brands that represent the broad desires of Queer individuals looking for community, we cover a lot. This episode was a fun one to be a part of so get ready for a wild ride.

We know a lot but we don’t know it all, so join the conversation on social and let us know your thoughts.


Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – how is the quest to not just survive but thrive unique within Black Trans experience ?

In an effort to continue to introduce you to amazing members of our community this week we welcome Tabytha Gonzalez to our Surface Level Family. A human rights professional and a woman with a story that deserves to be told we speak with her through the lens of new documentary The Stroll streaming on Max. The Stroll tells the story of trans women of color who’s economic survival was tied to their time as sex workers in what is now New York City’s Meatpacking District. It is a story of hardship, love, violence, community, but most importantly resilience. Tabytha shared parts of her story on The Stroll and we are excited to go beyond the surface level with her here.

We know a lot but we don’t know it all, so join the conversation on social and let us know your thoughts.

Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – how do we protect our joy when pride is under attack?

We bring you something special edition of Surface Level for Pride 2023! We are happy to share our favorite pride memories, delve into a conversation around the attack on Queer representation from conservatives, and offer a little bit of Surface Level drag story time because you know we love the kids(well Jordan and Tony do). Our joy is not optional so with equal parts celebration and defiance we offer you pride in the face of prejudice.

We know a lot but we don’t know it all, so join the conversation on social and let us know your thoughts.

Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – What was our parent’s journey in accepting our Queer identity? This episode will likely take the crown as our most personal level ever. This week we welcome Annette Epps, Teresa Randall, and Tony Jermin Sr, better known as our parents, to our Surface Level family. We explore the joy, surprise, pain, and confusion that defined our parents journey of accepting their Queer children. We hope that this episode serves as a possibility model for parents, children, and people generally that when you lead with love that bond cannot be broken. We know a lot but we don’t know it all, so join the conversation on social and let us know your thoughts.

Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious - How can we dismantle mental health stigmas and foster understanding?

In this episode as we navigate the complex terrain of mental health. We welcome Jarred Denzel Keller to our Surface Level Family. Jarred, a Mental Health Advocate and Senior Press Secretary for the Human Rights Campaign, bears his truth for all to hear and see. Together, we shed light on the commodification of mental well-being, advocating for genuine understanding, compassion, and the urgent dismantling of stigmas. Prepare for an eye-opening discussion challenging preconceptions, cultivating empathy, and embracing a compassionate approach. Journey with us as we strive to create a society fostering support, acceptance, and genuine care for mental well-being.

We know a lot but we don’t know it all, so join the conversation on social and let us know your thoughts.

Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – is Black Excellence doing more harm than help? In this thought-provoking episode, we challenge the notion of "Black Excellence" and explore the unrealistic pressures that surround it. This special episode was recorded in front of a live audience, marking an exciting milestone for our podcast. Together, we seek to redefine the true meaning of success and offer a fresh perspective on achievement. Join us as we navigate this transformative exploration, inviting you to embrace authenticity and discover joy on your own terms. Prepare for an enlightening conversation that sparks introspection and opens doors to new possibilities. We know a lot but we don’t know it all, so join the conversation on social and let us know your thoughts.