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A podcast by 37signals about the better way to work and run your business. The REWORK podcast features the co-founders of 37signals (the makers of Basecamp and HEY), Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson sharing their unique perspective on business and entrepreneurship along with host Kimberly Rhodes.</p>
Have you ever wanted to bid farewell to bothersome emails without the hassle of unsubscribing or composing polite "please stop emailing me" requests?
Today 37signals' co-founders, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, join host Kimberly Rhodes to walk listeners through HEY's newest addition that allows users to express their email frustrations unconventionally. Introducing the 'Fuck No' feature for those instances when a simple "no" just won't suffice.
Listen in as Jason and David delve into the concept of Easter eggs—those hidden surprises that infuse a touch of edgy enjoyment into software. Then discover how this feature has emerged as a compelling reason for both newcomers and returning users to explore HEY as their email solution.
If you've ever wanted a playful solution to solve an age-old email dilemma, tune in!
Check out the full video episode on YouTube
Key Takeaways:
Rework is a production of 37signals. You can find show notes and transcripts on our website. Full video episodes are available on YouTube and X [formerly known as Twitter).
If you have a question for Jason or David about a better way to work and run your business, leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850 or email, and we might answer it on a future episode.
Links and Resources:
A Cathartic New Feature in HEY—@jasonfried
Sign up for a 30-day free trial at Basecamp.com
This episode kicks off with the Underdog Challenge winner sharing the unconventional strategies that enable his small business to take on their larger competitors.
Then, 37signals' co-founders, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, sit down with host Kimberly Rhodes to delve into the power of building an audience through authentic content.
Jason and David share the secret of building a genuine connection with your audience and the importance of having "skin in the game" in content creation. Listen in as they walk listeners through the vital components of organic content creation to engender trust and resonate with your audience in a landscape overflowing with "content marketing BS."
Check out the full video episode on YouTube
Show Notes:
[00:00] -Kimberly welcomes Christian Hyatt, the co-founder and CEO of cybersecurity company Risk3sixty, as the winner of 37signals' Underdog Challenge.
[03:16] - Christian shares his top tip for underdogs.
[03:50] - Kimberly awards one year of Basecamp Pro Unlimited to Christian and his team.
[04:08] - 37signals co-founders Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson join the podcast to discuss building an audience through authentic content.
[04:32] - Jason shares the key to building a genuine connection with your audience.
[05:51] - David stresses the importance of demonstrating competence and having "skin in the game" in content creation.
[09:34] - Why you should avoid adding more "content marketing bullshit" to the internet.
[10:12] – Avoid the “content marketing playbook.” Today’s challenges in audience building require alternative marketing strategies.
[10:55] - Kimberly discusses the concept of giving before asking inspired by Gary Vaynerchuk's book, Jab, Jab, Jab, Right Hook.
[11:16] - Steering clear of rigid sharing schedules and examples of authentic, meaningful content that resonates with your audience.
[12:04] - Keeping the easy from becoming hard. The importance of sharing thought processes and insights with your audience.
[13:22] - A non-pushy approach to introducing new products or content.
[15:54] - Advice for listeners on being willing to share and educate online, particularly in the face of potential internet criticism.
[16:18] - The importance of an audience that includes supporters and detractors
[18:50] - 37signals' marketing strategies, specifically their perspective on paid advertising and leveraging their existing audience.
[19:07] - Building a trusted brand through organic sharing.
[21:45] - “Engage, respond, argue, defend, promote, whatever it might be,” but actually have a conversation.
[22:41] - The value of being in-the-trenches to build brand equity.
[25:59] - How entrepreneurs who are just starting out can begin building an audience.
[26:15] - The key to getting started and improving as you grow.
[27:22] - Why you shouldn't overlook the importance of educating people about the finer details of your field.
[28:02] - Rework is a production of 37signals. You can find show notes and transcripts on our website. Full video episodes are available on YouTube and X. If you have a question for Jason or David about a better way to work and run your business, leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850 and we might answer it on a future episode.
"Ideas are immortal. They last forever. What doesn't last forever is inspiration. Inspiration is like fresh fruit or milk: it has an expiration date,” - from Rework, by Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson
On this episode, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, the Co-founders of 37signals, sit down with host Kimberly Rhodes to share their perspective on the fleeting nature of inspiration with insights from the chapter called "Inspiration is Perishable" in their book, Rework.
Listen in to discover why Jason and David liken inspiration to rocket fuel and offer advice to prevent smothering your best ideas with unnecessary tasks. They also explore team motivation and share the secret behind their enduring 20+ year working relationship.
Tune in to learn how to seize the moment when inspiration strikes, make the most of it, and avoid wasting its potential.
Check out the full video episode on YouTube
Show Notes:
[00:00] - Kimberly introduces the topic of the show today, from the book, Rework, the conversation is about the chapter called, "Inspiration is Perishable."
[00:31] - Jason shares how to filter out which ideas are truly worthwhile and which ones are not.
[01:48] - Inspiration is kind of like rocket fuel. David shares why he feels it’s important to act during the inspiration phase and which factors make inspiration perish most quickly.
[04:37] - New projects need intense inspiration and a sprint mindset.
[05:43] – How not to suffocate your inspiration right at the start. Jason shares why you should jump into action.
[06:37] - Many successful ideas started as imperfect ones. David shares the key to making them successful.
[07:33] - Inspiration ebbs and flows, Jason shares the key to knowing when a project is over and some advice from a piece he wrote called Faith in Eventually.
[09:38] - Motivation is a valuable driver of success. David shares his philosophy on why you should prioritize the idea that excites you the most (even if it looks worse on paper).
[10:37] - Don’t squander motivation on doubt—the importance of following your gut.
[12:48] - Kimberly asks how David and Jason get the team excited and fired up for their new ideas.
[13:13] - Everyone doesn’t have to be rah-rah fired up all the time. Jason shares his advice on what to focus on to keep a project progressing.
[15:02] - Not everyone needs to be a visionary; there's a division of labor. David shares the need for a clear direction and decision-makers in every project.
[17:11] - Kimberly asks if David and Jason tend to share inspiration simultaneously or have alternating phases of inspiration.
[17:29] - Jason highlights where he and David have different areas of focus and the crucial areas where they come together in alignment.
[18:29] - The balance between individual creativity and a unified vision. David shares what has helped them maintain their 20+ year working relationship and where they come together to collaborate.
[19:44] - Tune in next week for the special guest episode with the person chosen to share their underdog story. Rework is a production of 37signals. You can find show notes and transcripts on our website. Full video episodes are available on YouTube and X [formerly known as Twitter). If you have a question for Jason or David about a better way to work and run your business, leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850 or email, and we might answer it on a future episode.
Links and Resources:
From Jason's HEY World: Faith In Eventually
From David's HEY World: Inspiration is Perishable
Sign up for a 30-day free trial at Basecamp.com
Company culture is more than just a buzzword or a section in your employee handbook.
It's not something you can just write down and expect to manifest. It creates itself organically, through the attitudes and actions of your team that define how you work and more importantly how you work together.
Today, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, the Co-founders of 37signals, sit down with host Kimberly Rhodes to share their perspective on the pivotal distinction between 'wanting' the right culture and actively 'doing the work' to foster a positive culture that truly reflects your values.
Listen in as they share what they look for in character and contributions when hiring new members for the team and how they assess whether a person will enhance or detract from the company's culture and operations.
And for those facing the tough question of whether their company culture ‘sucks’, they provide valuable insights into the hard choices, and uncomfortable conversations that drive meaningful culture change.
Check out the full video episode on YouTube
Show Notes:
[00:00] - Kimberly kicks off the show, and a discussion focused on culture from the book Rework.
[00:37] - Your organization’s culture creates itself. Jason shares what culture really represents, how it’s arrived at, and how to change it.
[02:10] - It's easy to write down what you "want" your culture to be. David shares why that might be a mistake and why it's harder to "do the work" to create a positive culture.
[04:28] - Kimberly shares her experience reading the company handbook when she began her career with 37signals and the impression it left.
[05:01] - The goal is not perfection but consistently doing the right things to maintain a fair and representative culture. David shares why aligning your words and actions is crucial to shaping your organization's culture over time.
[06:37] - Culture is show, it’s not tell. It’s the actual temperature of the organization, not the forecast.
[07:11] - David asks if your culture passes the “smell test.”
[07:36] - Kimberly shares a story about her husband’s experience in tech. She then asks how the team at 37signals has managed to create something so different from the industry standard.
[08:09] - Standing against Silicon Valley's cultural norms for a more realistic approach to work hours and productivity. David recounts Basecamp's humble beginnings with limited time and resources that prompted 37signals to prioritize efficient time utilization over long hours.
[11:43] - The human factor in culture. Kimberly asks whether the team considers how a new hire will align with the existing company culture.
[12:05] - Jason shares what they look for in character and contributions when hiring new members for the team. Plus, he shares how they assess whether a person will enhance or detract from the company's culture and operations.
[14:30] - Don't be quick to judge. David shares a more accurate way to evaluate the contributions of your team members.
[16:41] - Does your company culture suck? Kimberly asks for tips on how an organization can improve its culture when it's not aligned with the founder's vision.
[17:12] - The only way to bring about change is to change (hint: it starts at the top).
[18:41] - Culture change often requires hard choices and uncomfortable conversations—but the results are worthwhile.
[20:41] - Rework is a production of 37signals. You can find show notes and transcripts on our website. Full video episodes are available on YouTube and Twitter (also known as X). If you have a question for Jason or David about a better way to work and run your business, leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850 or email, and we might answer it on a future episode.
Links and Resources:
Sign up for a 30-day free trial at Basecamp.com
In this episode of Rework we're turning the spotlight onto you, our listeners, with another episode of listener questions.
Today, Kimberly Rhodes sits down with Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, the co-founders of 37signals, to pull back the curtain on the intricacies they faced when hiring a COO for their team, and the intuition-driven decision making they used to ensure their new hire would be a good fit and complement the team.
Plus, how to help your company get started with working in six-week cycles, and adapting product development principles to professional services companies.
Listen in to explore Jason and David's unconventional yet remarkably effective strategies for business development and growth.
Show Notes:
[00:00] - Kimberly introduces the topic for today’s podcast, listener questions, with a question from Justin who asks, "I saw that you hired a COO in 2021 after not having someone in that role for a while. What’s the 37signals approach to executive hiring?"
[00:46] - Jason discusses their decision to use a recruiter for hiring their new COO and shares which qualities were more important to them than the candidate's resume.
[03:20] - David elaborates on the challenges of hiring executives, the importance of chemistry, and how Elaine complements their team.
[06:41] - Reflecting on adding a third person to a team with a long history—why it was important to find someone who could introduce a dose of healthy conflict without making everything a grind.
[08:07] - Jason shares how long the hiring process took, and what made them think that Elaine might be the right fit.
[09:13] - David shares the importance of "gravitas"—having the weight and legitimacy to inspire trust and confidence in the team and how Elaine stood out compared to others in the hiring process.
[10:44] - Kimberly shares this two-part question from Reuben: “What's your suggestion for helping a company get started with working in six-week cycles—is there a specific time to start? And are all the teams across 37signals synced on six-week cycles?”
[11:07] - Jason shares his perspective on getting started with six-week cycles, his advice on when is a good time to start a cycle, and the one time he wouldn’t.
[12:50] - David discusses the importance of individual focus in problem-solving and why he believes in starting with a small team to test Shape Up's effectiveness before implementing it company-wide.
[15:41] - The benefits of having the entire company operate on the same clock frequency.
[16:27] - Kimberly shares a question from a mystery caller asking for advice on adapting product development principles to professional services type companies, like public accounting or legal that work on hourly billing and tax deadlines or legal deadlines that they have to meet.
[17:21] - Jason and David share how to apply the core ideas of Shape Up to diverse service types and internal areas of your organization.
[19:43] - The value of setting shorter goals over six weeks, rather than annual goals to increase the chances that things will get done.
[20:11] - How shorter cycles help prevent the pile-up of tasks and overwhelming situations that often occur at the end of longer timeframes.
[20:49] - Kimberly introduces a listener question about whether the 37signals team uses telemetry or relies on intuition in their product development process.
[21:14] - Jason discusses their approach to product development, emphasizing the importance of other factors extensive telemetry, and A/B testing.
[22:12] - David shares the challenges they have encountered with telemetry and A/B testing.
[26:11] - The value of speed, forward momentum and making decisions instead of stalling to find a perfect solution.
[27:24] - How launching quickly helps your team, with an example of how the team trimmed two months of analysis down to one day.
[28:22] - Data can only reflect the past and doesn't accurately predict the future.
[29:14] - Momentum in making continuous improvements is both crucial AND hard to measure.
[30:10] - If you have a question for Jason or David about a better way to work and run your business, leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850 or send us an email and we just might answer it on a future episode. The REWORK podcast is a production of 37signals. You can find show notes and transcripts on our website. You can also find full video episodes on Twitter (also known as X) and YouTube.
Links and Resources:
Do you have a question for Jason and David? Send us an email or leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850.
Sign up for a 30-day free trial at Basecamp.com
In a world where subscriptions have become the norm for everything from streaming services to heated car seats, the team at 37signals recently unveiled a new venture that's poised to reintroduce the notion of software ownership with a pay-once model called ONCE.
Today, Kimberly Rhodes sits down with Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, the co-founders of 37signals to introduce ONCE to listeners of the show.
Listen in for a behind-the-scenes look at the driving principles, unique challenges, and potential impact of David and Jason's vision to offer simpler, more user-centric software, that they hope will transform the digital landscape and empower users worldwide.
Check out the full video episode on YouTube
Show Notes:
[00:00] - Kimberly opens the show, with the team introducing ONCE today on the show.
[00:25] - Jason clarifies exactly what ONCE is.
[01:16] - Inundated with software subscriptions? Why 37signals is aiming to reintroduce software ownership with a pay-once model.
[02:03] - The shift from software as a product to SaaS and why now is the time for an alternative.
[02:58] - The distinction between product and service.
[03:42] - When SaaS models just don’t fit (and when they lead to data ownership concerns).
[04:56] - Basecamp in the White House? David shares the story.
[05:57] - How transitioning from a service to a product model will change the landscape.
[07:08] - Jason shares that ONCE is an umbrella for future products and offers listeners insight into the future of Basecamp and HEY.
[09:18] -David shares the challenges of applying the ONCE idea to different software solutions.
[11:38] - David shares the desire for a simpler and more straightforward user experience akin to turning on a TV.
[13:22] - The need for a different software development approach, and why it will be a good time—even if it doesn't work.
[14:51] - Kimberly inquires about the availability of the code.
[15:42] - Jason highlights the transparency of the ONCE concept, sharing his hopes that it will serve as an educational tool for other product teams.
[16:40] - David reflects on how newer products have lost their repairability, emphasizing the value of open source principles and the lasting legacy embodied by a product like ONCE.
[20:41] - The importance and value of transparency and open collaboration.
[21:47] - Kimberly raises questions about branding, the origin of the name ONCE, and the challenges of acquiring a short domain name.
[21:51] - Jason shares some of the optional names they tried out and the philosophy behind the name ONCE.
[22:40] - The process of acquiring premium domain names. Jason shares 37signals previous experiences and the behind-the-scenes of the recent negotiation to purchase ONCE.com.
[24:18] - A symbolic gesture of their commitment to the ONCE concept and a convenient home for their umbrella of products.
[24:50] - The significance and cost of valuable domain acquisition and why David advises against doing it on your first venture.
[26:16] - Kimberly inquires about how they manage updates and product development across Basecamp, HEY, and the new umbrella product with their current team.
[27:06] - Jason shares their approach to allocating resources to manage multiple products.
[28:28] - David recounts how Basecamp was developed, and 37signals ongoing commitment and dedication to both simplicity in product development and tools that empower single individuals to build entire products.
[30:09] - A calculated bet and the essential attitude needed for Founders when pursuing ambitious goals.
[32:06] - For more information about ONCE click here. The REWORK podcast is a production of 37signals. You can find show notes and transcripts on our website. You can also find full video episodes on Twitter (also known as X) and YouTube. If you have a question for Jason or David about a better way to work and run your business, leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850 or send us an email.
Links and Resources:
Jason's LinkedIn Post About Once
Basecamp: It Doesn’t Have to Be Crazy at Work
Sign up for a 30-day free trial at Basecamp.com
In our recent episodes, we've been talking about the principles of Shape Up – the cornerstone of 37signals' product development philosophy. We've explored the art of crafting a pitch and the decision-making process that takes place at the betting table.
Shape Up acknowledges that there's always more work than time allows, and on today’s episode, we’re zeroing in on a critical aspect of the Shape Up philosophy—when to stop tinkering and take the leap and ship.
Join Kimberly Rhodes and 37signals co-founders Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson as they share their wisdom on the ever-present dilemma of shipping on time versus shipping perfect, and the fine balance between must-haves and nice-to-haves in product development. Plus, the value of Hill Charts in Basecamp to keep you tethered to the reality of where your project truly stands.
Listen in as Jason and David provide practical strategies to master the art of timely product delivery that doesn't sacrifice quality to ensure your team stays on the path to success.
Check out the full video episode on YouTube
Show Notes:
[00:00] - There's always more work than there is time, and at some point, you must stop and ship and that's the topic of our conversation today.
[00:44] - Jason talks about the importance of shipping on time without sacrificing quality.
[02:29] - David uses a racing analogy to explain how viewing work through a budgeted timeframe helps you prioritize (and shed excess scope).
[03:21] - The effectiveness of constraints in achieving better results.
[04:18] - How embracing constraints leads to better software.
[05:23] - How the two-person teams decide on "must haves" vs. "nice to haves."
[07:51] - Constraints allow for reevaluation of the problem statement, highlighting that even the "epicenter" of a feature can be redefined, leading to scope reduction.
[10:08] - How timelines keep you honest and keep you from chasing bad money.
[11:47] - The value of "Hill Charts" in Basecamp
and why complex issues on the other side of the hill pose a greater challenge.
[12:44] - Jason explains that in the Shape Up methodology, if something isn't completed within the timeframe, it isn't automatically reintroduced—it has to fight for its relevance.
[14:08] - How to avoid the "too big to fail."
[14:21] - David explains how to use the "penalty box" concept to keep yourself honest in product development.
[15:08] - The importance of guidelines and guardrails in getting you where you want to go.
[19:08] - When should a project transition to a more formalized approach like Shape Up using the example of HEY.
[20:45] - Why you should allow for experimentation in the initial exploration phase of new product development.
[21:50] - You can read more about Shape Up, 37signals philosophy around product development in the book Shape Up. A free copy is available here. Rework is a production of 37signals. You can find show notes and transcripts on our website. Full video episodes are available on YouTube and Twitter (also known as X). If you have a question for Jason or David about a better way to work and run your business, leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850 or send us an email.
Links and Resources:
Shape Up Principle: The Betting Table | REWORK
Sign up for a 30-day free trial at Basecamp.com
Recently 37signals co-founders David Heinemeier Hansson and Jason Fried found themselves at the center of an unexpected internet storm. It all began when David made a significant announcement: Turbo 8 would no longer be using TypeScript.
What followed was a whirlwind of controversy and social media fireworks.
In today's discussion, Kimberly Rhodes sits down with Jason and David to unpack the impact of social media on these types of discussions and the broader implications of these online controversies on open source contributions.
Check out the full video episode on YouTube
Show Notes:
[00:00] - Kimberly opens up the discussion, sharing the recent announcement made by David, that Turbo 8 would no longer utilize TypeScript and the resulting online controversy.
[00:33] - Jason shares his reaction to the drama unfolding and offers kudos to David for handling the storm with grace.
[01:34] - David shares how it all began with eternal debate: dynamic vs. static languages, strong vs. weak typing, and 37signals is firmly in the dynamic, free-spirited camp.
[02:23] - What led to the BIG decision to pull the TypeScript plug?
[03:19] - Dynamic vs. static, it's like arguing about your favorite pizza topping.
[04:13] - TypeScript was removed in record time (freeing the code!).
[04:59] - This debate is like a merry-go-round of arguments (and we're not here to convert anyone).
[05:48] - David shares: "People have preconceived notions about my opinions, and when we go against the flow, it's bound to stir the pot," (remember the cloud exit?).
[07:32] - Programmers can turn small details into raging infernos and social media is like a dry brush waiting for a spark.
[08:45] - Compared to fighting Apple for HEY.com or navigating the minefield of workplace politics, this is just a minor skirmish.
[10:38] - Humans naturally tend to form tribes and defend their beliefs, but internet drama usually loses its fervor in 24-36 hours.
[11:38] - Jason shares the binary nature of most debates such as air-cooled vs. water-cooled Porsches or car collectors' preferences.
[12:25] - Kimberly comments on the polarized nature of the comments.
[12:38] - There is value in discussing ideas so long as the debates don’t devolve into personal attacks.
[14:39] - How personal attacks gain traction.
[15:44] - The importance of embracing diversity in programming languages and techniques for a more vibrant tech world.
[17:24] - David shares insight from his recent trip to Japan and the beauty of appreciating different cultures without feeling the need for uniformity.
[18:42] - David reveals whether this unexpected negativity has changed his view of open source and sharing.
[20:40] - David will continue to contribute to open source BUT…
[21:26] - Please don’t spoil open source contributions for everyone else.
[23:16] - David shares a surprising recurring theme in the Rework podcast and why it’s important to speak out about your beliefs—especially those you are hesitant to voice publicly.
[24:01] - David discusses whether this kerfuffle has had any effect on the 37signals team.
[25:19] - Rework is a production 37signals. You can find show notes and transcripts on our website. Full video episodes are available on Twitter and YouTube. If you have a specific question for Jason or David about a better way to work and run your business, leave your voicemails at 708-628-7850 or send an email.
Links and Resources:
From David’s HEY World: Turbo 8 is Dropping TypeScript
From David's HEY World: Open Source Hooliganism and the TypeScript Meltdown
DHH's post about Turbo 8 dropping TypeScript on X (formerly Twitter)
Picture this: a dimly lit room where velvet-robed figures gather in secret to make decisions of paramount importance as the fate of the pitches for the next product development cycle hangs in the balance.
The "betting table” – where the formalized pitches for each six-week work cycle are selected – might seem mysterious but we're about to unravel its secrets.
Listen in as host Kimberly Rhodes sits down with 37signals co-founders Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson to explore the unique inner workings of the "betting table" and how this process shapes each product development cycle.
Tune in to discover 37signals' approach to selecting and refining projects at the "betting table."
Check out the full video episode on YouTube
Show Notes:
[00:00] - Today on the podcast, the discussion focuses on the betting table and how the decisions are made about which pitches are selected and which projects to schedule.
[00:42] - Jason shares what the betting table is.
[02:26] - The betting table process: refining pitches into a kickoff document.
[03:17] - David shares the background behind the betting table and how it has evolved.
[05:51] - The betting table: passionately advocating for different views, with one person ultimately making the decision.
[06:51] - Ensuring that resource allocation decisions are made efficiently while avoiding committee-driven decision-making.
[08:56] - Decisions made at the betting table can sometimes be passed to others who are more passionate or informed about a particular project.
[10:04] - It's all about timing—unselected pitches don't automatically get another chance in the next cycle, but if they are relevant, they might.
[10:51] - Jason shares his biggest issue with backlogs.
[11:33] - David shares why Shape Up is such a powerful way of working and how the betting table process provides multiple opportunities to influence product direction.
[14:38] - Jason shares how the assignment of team members works during the betting table to ensure that the available resources match the selected projects.
[15:49] - David shares the background behind aligning pitch budgets with available resources and calendars during the betting table.
[19:55] - Why so much of the betting table process is asynchronous and done via written communication,
[22:54] - When calls might need to happen during the betting table process.
[23:57] - For more background on how 37signals manages product development, get your free copy of the book Shape Up. It is available here.
[24:13] - Don't forget you can still enter #TheUnderdogChallenge by sharing the story of your scrappy team on the 37signals LinkedIn post here for a chance to be featured on a future episode of Rework. The deadline to enter is September 15. Rework is a production of 37signals. You can find show notes and transcripts on our website. Full video episodes are available on Twitter and YouTube. If you have a specific question for Jason or David about a better way to work and run your business, leave your voicemails at 708-628-7850.
Links and Resources:
Enter #TheUnderdogChallenge on LinkedIn
If you've been following the Rework podcast, you're undoubtedly acquainted with the concept of Shape Up, a cornerstone of 37signals' approach to product development.
In this episode, we delve into a core component of Shape Up: the delicate art of crafting a pitch.
Join Rework host Kimberly Rhodes as she sits down with 37signals founders, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson for a conversation encompassing everything from the essence and purpose of a pitch to the step-by-step process of constructing a finely tuned pitch.
Listen in as Jason and David walk listeners through Shape Up's five-point compass for an effective pitch: problem, appetite, solution, rabbit holes, and no-gos, plus insight on how to use “tracer bullets” to manage the balance between scope and execution while avoiding the pitfalls along the way.
Check out the full video episode on YouTube
Show Notes:
[00:00] - Kimberly introduces listeners to Shape Up, and the topic of the day: "writing a pitch" for product development.
[00:34] - Jason shares what a pitch is and its purpose in product development.
[02:16] - David emphasizes a crucial counterpoint to common practices at most organizations, highlighting the two common pitfalls.
[03:12] - Striking a balance: providing boundaries without stifling creativity.
[04:05] - The key innovation of a Shape Up and the importance of avoiding extremes of over-specification or vague one-liners in your pitch.
[05:44] - Jason shares who can write a pitch, and the distinction between throwing out ideas and formalized pitches.
[07:47] - David introduces listeners to the concept of "framing" before pitching.
[09:28] - Why it’s vital to distinguish between identifying a problem and crafting a pitch.
[10:25] - Effective pitch creation requires contextual awareness to devise realistic solutions.
[11:46] - Pitched solutions are more about direction than detailed execution—the true execution and implementation are the responsibility of the assigned team.
[13:06] - Pitching is a powerful tool for attracting and nurturing independent decision-makers.
[14:54] - The magic of deferring decisions until the implementation stage.
[15:46] - Pitching projects is a blend of autonomy, mastery, and purpose, aligning with Daniel Pink's principles of employee satisfaction.
[17:21] - Shape Up's five key details for making a pitch: problem, appetite, solution, rabbit holes, and no-gos.
[18:23] - Rabbit holes: tempting yet treacherous distractions that offer the illusion of progress. Why unveiling these traps early is essential.
[20:08] - David shares an example of a recent project using a time zone auto completer.
[21:15] - A "science project" - the macro version of a rabbit hole.
[22:41] - How a "tracer bullet" or "traceable" helps the 37signals team understand a project's feasibility and complexity leading through a small investment of information gathering.
[24:29] - Why a "tracer bullet is crucial for prioritizing projects, using an example of using a tracer to explore billing in other currencies and how it provided clarity on the project scope and timeline.
[25:40] - Next week's episode of Rework will focus on the "Betting Table" and how the decision-making process unfolds to choose which pitches to work on. In the meantime, don’t forget you can still enter #TheUnderdogChallenge by the sharing the story of your scrappy team on the 37signals LinkedIn post here for a chance to be featured on a future episode of Rework. Look for show notes and transcripts on our website with full video episodes available on Twitter and YouTube. If you have a specific question for Jason or David about Shape Up leave your voicemails at 708-628-7850 and we just might answer it in a future episode.
Links and Resources:
Enter #TheUnderdogChallenge on LinkedIn
Drive: The Surprising Truth About What Motivates Us by Daniel H. Pink
Sign up for a 30-day free trial at Basecamp.com
The 37signals Dev Blog
37signals on YouTube
Amanda is a wife. A mother. A blogger. A Christian.
A charming, beautiful, bubbly, young woman who lives life to the fullest.
But Amanda is dying, with a secret she doesn’t want anyone to know.
She starts a blog detailing her cancer journey, and becomes an inspiration, touching and
captivating her local community as well as followers all over the world.
Until one day investigative producer Nancy gets an anonymous tip telling her to look at Amanda’s
blog, setting Nancy on an unimaginable road to uncover Amanda’s secret.
Award winning journalist Charlie Webster explores this unbelievable and bizarre, but
all-too-real tale, of a woman from San Jose, California whose secret ripped a family apart and
left a community in shock.
Scamanda is the true story of a woman whose own words held the key to her secret.
New episodes every Monday.
Follow Scamanda on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen.
Amanda’s blog posts are read by actor Kendall Horn.
